TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

Let us look at Japan’s XF9 engine produced as a prototype by IHI corporation.

This engine uses Blisk fans and Blisk compressors to improve weight and performance. It has a much improved patented fuel delivery system in the combustor that gives more even heat distribution in chamber. It has high pressure turbine sections that can operate to 1800 degrees C and contains fifth generation single crystal blades that are friction-welded to form a Blisk like operation. This is enclosed in a shroud made from ceramic matrix composites.

The interesting point here is that , such a high tech engine produced in June 2018 as a prototype, has still not been integrated to a flying aircraft to be tested with a view to serial manufacturing. Can there be some external pressure stopping it from being integrated?

Does anybody think that IHI and the Japanese (with their sharing-reluctant policy of military tech) will be willing to form a collaboration with TEI and Turkey? Would GE or RR the new partner, allow IHI to share any of this with Turkish counterparts? Especially as some of these techs are infringing on big boys’ technological prowess area.

Same logic can be applied to Indian engine manufacturers in a short while as they are now receiving technological help from Safran and GE.

TEI may have to go alone in this quest of ours to develop our version of low bypass turbofan jet engines. We need to find as many fresh minds and brains to work on our TF6/10K and TF35K programs. It can be via Ukrainian input or via foreign recruitments. JVs with nations that are in the same position as ours can also yield contribution to a certain degree albeit of limited amount.

I still say that we should be looking in to a possible partnership with RR, even if it means just to get one foot in the door.

 

[Bürküt]

Maybe 2nd tier turbofan engine parts manufacturers from Germany, Italy or Spain.
India with their domestic Kaveri engine (Pakistan would flip out).
Japan's IHI with its XF9 engine (US would flip out, IHI now teamed up with 6th gen GCAP/Tempest group).

Doesn't Korea have an engine developement program in the F404/F414 setting?As far as I know, TEI also has cooperation in certain areas with Korea. I heard it at a panel of TEI CEO Mahmut Akşit.TEI has a cooperation with related companies in every country except Japan/China/Russia.

 

[Chocopie]

Doesn't Korea have an engine developement program in the F404/F414 setting?As far as I know, TEI also has cooperation in certain areas with Korea. I heard it at a panel of TEI CEO Mahmut Akşit.TEI has a cooperation with related companies in every country except Japan/China/Russia.

Hanwha Aerospace, Korea‘s main gas turbine and aircraft engine manufacturer, locally assembles and produces parts for F414-GE-400K engines of KF-21.

They‘re also involved in a highly secretive development project of a 5,500~8,500 lbf dry thrust turbofan engine intended for stealth UAVs until 2025. So far no news about the progress …

1st speculation: it doesn‘t go well
2nd speculation: gov wants to fly under the radar not to piss off US DoD & MIC
3rd speculation: it was dropped entirely due to technical difficulties

Latest news about Hanwha engine plans:

Hanwha aims to develop unmanned fighter jet engine within decade - KED Global

Hanwha Aerospace Co., South Korea’s answer to Elon Musk’s SpaceX, aims to develop engines for unmanned aircraft within the next decade to enhance i

www.kedglobal.com

Company info Hanwha Aerospace (PDF):
Hanwha PDF downlod

 

[UkroTurk]

Let us look at Japan’s XF9 engine produced as a prototype by IHI corporation.

This engine uses Blisk fans and Blisk compressors to improve weight and performance. It has a much improved patented fuel delivery system in the combustor that gives more even heat distribution in chamber. It has high pressure turbine sections that can operate to 1800 degrees C and contains fifth generation single crystal blades that are friction-welded to form a Blisk like operation. This is enclosed in a shroud made from ceramic matrix composites.

The interesting point here is that , such a high tech engine produced in June 2018 as a prototype, has still not been integrated to a flying aircraft to be tested with a view to serial manufacturing. Can there be some external pressure stopping it from being integrated?

Does anybody think that IHI and the Japanese (with their sharing-reluctant policy of military tech) will be willing to form a collaboration with TEI and Turkey? Would GE or RR the new partner, allow IHI to share any of this with Turkish counterparts? Especially as some of these techs are infringing on big boys’ technological prowess area.

Same logic can be applied to Indian engine manufacturers in a short while as they are now receiving technological help from Safran and GE.

TEI may have to go alone in this quest of ours to develop our version of low bypass turbofan jet engines. We need to find as many fresh minds and brains to work on our TF6/10K and TF35K programs. It can be via Ukrainian input or via foreign recruitments. JVs with nations that are in the same position as ours can also yield contribution to a certain degree albeit of limited amount.

I still say that we should be looking in to a possible partnership with RR, even if it means just to get one foot in the door.

Even dreaming about Japanese engine is joyful

 

[Bürküt]

Hanwha Aerospace, Korea‘s main gas turbine and aircraft engine manufacturer, locally assembles and produces parts for F414-GE-400K engines of KF-21.

They‘re also involved in a highly secretive development project of a 5,500~8,500 lbf dry thrust turbofan engine intended for stealth UAVs until 2025. So far no news about the progress …

1st speculation: it doesn‘t go well
2nd speculation: gov wants to fly under the radar not to piss off US DoD & MIC
3rd speculation: it was dropped entirely due to technical difficulties

Latest news about Hanwha engine plans:

Hanwha aims to develop unmanned fighter jet engine within decade - KED Global

Hanwha Aerospace Co., South Korea’s answer to Elon Musk’s SpaceX, aims to develop engines for unmanned aircraft within the next decade to enhance i

www.kedglobal.com

Company info Hanwha Aerospace (PDF):
Hanwha PDF downlod

probably the 2nd.You Koreans like to move forward with modest and confident steps

 

[Chocopie]

probably the 2nd.You Koreans like to move forward with modest and confident steps

Nobody knows. Defense officials are incredibly secretive about some projects. Just like the years-long rumors about a Korean supersonic AShM and BAM out of nothing they release video footage of the missile. And thereafter: total silence again ‍

 

[GoatsMilk]

Let us look at Japan’s XF9 engine produced as a prototype by IHI corporation.

This engine uses Blisk fans and Blisk compressors to improve weight and performance. It has a much improved patented fuel delivery system in the combustor that gives more even heat distribution in chamber. It has high pressure turbine sections that can operate to 1800 degrees C and contains fifth generation single crystal blades that are friction-welded to form a Blisk like operation. This is enclosed in a shroud made from ceramic matrix composites.

The interesting point here is that , such a high tech engine produced in June 2018 as a prototype, has still not been integrated to a flying aircraft to be tested with a view to serial manufacturing. Can there be some external pressure stopping it from being integrated?

Does anybody think that IHI and the Japanese (with their sharing-reluctant policy of military tech) will be willing to form a collaboration with TEI and Turkey? Would GE or RR the new partner, allow IHI to share any of this with Turkish counterparts? Especially as some of these techs are infringing on big boys’ technological prowess area.

Same logic can be applied to Indian engine manufacturers in a short while as they are now receiving technological help from Safran and GE.

TEI may have to go alone in this quest of ours to develop our version of low bypass turbofan jet engines. We need to find as many fresh minds and brains to work on our TF6/10K and TF35K programs. It can be via Ukrainian input or via foreign recruitments. JVs with nations that are in the same position as ours can also yield contribution to a certain degree albeit of limited amount.

I still say that we should be looking in to a possible partnership with RR, even if it means just to get one foot in the door.

If Turkiye has to go it alone, what are the reasonable expectations concerning what can and will be achieved? So lets say we get no help, 20 years from now what can we reasonably hope to have achieved in terms of engine power?

Because it really does seem like being able to create the fighter engine means everything.

 

[Bürküt]

Nobody knows. Defense officials are incredibly secretive about some projects. Just like the years-long rumors about a Korean supersonic AShM and BAM out of nothing they release video footage of the missile. And thereafter: total silence again ‍

It made me laugh when I thought of our chairman of the defense industry who wrote a poem under the newly made MRBM's video and shared it on twitter .

 

[Peter66]

This is an interesting read. We commend F35 at the highest possible level. However if it can be scrambled and blinded by a 4th gen fighter like that, it is serious...

Su-30 has used Khibiny EW system while intercepting the F-35

bulgarianmilitary.com

So how reliable is this post ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

If Turkiye has to go it alone, what are the reasonable expectations concerning what can and will be achieved? So lets say we get no help, 20 years from now what can we reasonably hope to have achieved in terms of engine power?

Because it really does seem like being able to create the fighter engine means everything.

At the moment the first target is to produce the TF6000 engine with a dry thrust level of at least 6000lbf. Also add to it an afterburner to augment thrust to 10000lbf. We don’t know if TEI is producing the TF6000 with enough durability to accommodate an afterburner. Hopefully they are. Otherwise that will mean a second prototype with specifics to withstand the sudden stresses introduced by the afterburner when it is fired up.
This engine will give us enough data to produce an engine that will provide 24-26000lbf thrust level to allow KAAN to manage supercruise. And 35000lbf with an afterburner.
Logic dictates that since TEI has enough expertise to produce almost all of the parts of such an engine, TEI should be able to produce an engine around 2026 for first ignition and an engine that can fly by 2028-29 with a view to start serial production in 2030.

20 years from now I would expect us to be producing adaptive cycle engines with ceramic matrix composites, having mastered a good plethora of engine families of turbofans, turboprops and turboshafts.

 

[Bürküt]

I noticed that Turks also like to autograph new weapon systems.

Yes it's true.At least, putting Atatürk's signature on aircrafts is a kind of tradition despite Erdoğan .

 

[Zafer]

20 years from now

more like 10 hopefully.

TF6000 will be telling and if the TF35000 gets ignition by 2025-2026 and to be deployed by the beginning of 2028 the design teem would probably be relieved from work in 2027 which then would be available for the next level. 5 years from then and 10 years from today an adaptive cycle engine with all the bells and whistles would be in the air doing its final runs before production. Not too farfetched.

 

[Samba]

So how reliable is this post ?

Not so sure but the news I have read so far on that website were pretty reasonable, especially news regarding Turkish Defence İndustry was on spot.

 

[Huelague]

Can Ukraine a possible customer or production partner in the future?

 

[Bürküt]

I don't think Ukraine will be able to allocate money for these, neither now nor in the future.They are litteraly like us before 100 years.They are giving a salvation war.After the war they will have no power economically.They will also maintain their military power, which should exist at a certain level, with American grants like us after the second world war.There is a misunderstanding about the pre-war Ukraine-Turkey relations. Ukraine kind of needed us at that time.Central Europe always cared about having good relations with Russia since the soviets broke up. We all know Russia modernized its army with the help of the West after the Chechen War.Central Europe wanted to maintain this relationship until America told them to move away in 2014.Even after the annexation of Crimea, the entire West hesitated to anger Russia.When pre-war USA sold missiles to Ukraine, They didn't even want the systems sold to be positioned directly against the Russia.Now the gates of hell have been opened.Nato, who was afraid to see if our relationship with Russia would deteriorate, now entered the race to who will give more aid.

 

[MADDOG]

-TRMOTOR was established by SSTEK in Ankara in 2017 to carry out design and development activities in the field of turbine engine technologies in Turkey.

-The partnership structure was updated in 2021 and the company became a subsidiary of TAI.

-TRMOTOR signed on February 12, 2021 (in order to determine the system and subsystem level requirements for a turbofan engine that can meet the thrust needs of the aircraft under development within the scope of the National Combat Aircraft Project.) to start the engine thermodynamic cycle studies, and to start the system conceptual design studies based on the cycle data obtained. The Indigenous Aircraft Engine Development Program carried out the project activities within the scope of the Ukraine Cooperation Project and the project was completed in the same year.

-Also in 2021, TRMOTOR started to work on the design of the APU, which is a necessity for the National Combat Aircraft Development Project.

-TEI and Ivchenko Progress presented a proposal for the Preliminary Design Phase Project tender initiated by the SSB within the scope of MMU Indigenous Aircraft Engine Development Program, with TRMotor being the main contractor.

https://motor.ssb.gov.tr/motor/Documents/GazTurbinliMotorYolHaritasi.pdf

@Radonsider

 

[TR_123456]

-TEI and Ivchenko Progress presented a proposal for the Preliminary Design Phase Project tender initiated by the SSB within the scope of MMU Indigenous Aircraft Engine Development Program, with TRMotor being the main contractor.

What does this mean exactly?
What proposal?

 

[Altay_TR]

MMU Hi-res Wallpaper

https://i.hizliresim.com/41zn3s3.jpg

Via DefenceTurkey Magazine

 

[MADDOG]

What does this mean exactly?
What proposal?

Probably in relation to the tender that is currently open. It seems that a final decision is yet to be given.

 

[buraktunahan]

I have read many parts of the report. Some parts of the report consist of encyclopedic information. Some parts of the report give technical information about the engines. Some sections also provide information about companies and country regulations.

In particular, I re-read the "executive summary" section and the "conclusion" section. However, I still do not understand why this report was prepared and what it would do. I could not come to a conclusion about the purpose of this report.

For example, I would expect a report like this: We have the production technology of so-and-so part of the engine. But we cannot produce such and such parts and we need support. In order to obtain such technology, we must initiate a research and development project. Such technology, on the other hand, must be purchased from a foreign partner. Or we should buy locally from xxxx company. We can probably finish the engine in xx years. etc. concrete information.

Maybe I couldn't understand the report because my capacity was insufficient. Maybe there are parts I missed. I don't know this. I would appreciate if someone who is an expert on this subject could explain the report.

In summary, my question is: What does this report do?