TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Radonsider]

There is no way we can make a JET engine 6 years

We can do an improved copy of the F110 GE129

 

[Tornadoss]

Mr Temel Kotil:

“Our engines which we will use in prototypes until 2028, that we supply from GE are ready. On the other hand, our TR Motor company, which is our subsidiary, will have developed the domestic engine until 2028. TR Motor prepared the preliminary design. We are good at software. Our young engineers are achieving success with our well-equipped infrastructure. We are pretty good at fast production. We have gained significant knowledge with Hürjet which we developed in a short time with Hürkuş and his experience. We use new design techniques in our jet trainer Hürjet. With this experience, we are rapidly developing MMU. In addition, the 1.4 mach supersonic Hürjet is faster than the planes of rival companies. We have developed a 1.4 mach jet from our turboprop aircraft Hürkuş in 5 years. With these works, we will have done to the MMU with a speed of 1.8 mach"

2028 is an ambitious time frame for the domestic engine. Hope they can realize that.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Mr Temel Kotil:

“Our engines which we will use in prototypes until 2028, that we supply from GE are ready. On the other hand, our TR Motor company, which is our subsidiary, will have developed the domestic engine until 2028. TR Motor prepared the preliminary design. We are good at software. Our young engineers are achieving success with our well-equipped infrastructure. We are pretty good at fast production. We have gained significant knowledge with Hürjet which we developed in a short time with Hürkuş and his experience. We use new design techniques in our jet trainer Hürjet. With this experience, we are rapidly developing MMU. In addition, the 1.4 mach supersonic Hürjet is faster than the planes of rival companies. We have developed a 1.4 mach jet from our turboprop aircraft Hürkuş in 5 years. With these works, we will have done to the MMU with a speed of 1.8 mach"

There are some conflicting statements here.
TR Motor company is a design bureau. They have no means of physical manufacturing capability. They had formed a partnership with Ukranian design company Ivchenko Progress, prior to the start of the war, which makes one think that they were short in some design knowledge and had to ask for help from a company that can only design for Motor Sich that in turn can only produce outdated Soviet engines. Not modern cutting edge technological marvels of stealth engines. That doesn’t instil much confidence! If he had said that, they had taken the design TR Motor has completed and given to TEI and they are going to manufacture an engine, that would have made more sense.
How can he claim Hurjet is faster than the planes of rival companies with a top speed of 1.4 Mach when we know that KAI T-50 has a top speed in excess of 1.5 Mach, Mitsubishi T2 achieving 1.6Mach . Even Hong du jL-10 is a 1.4+ Mach plane. If it is really faster, than he has to come clean, and say it can do 1.6+ Mach.

 

[Zafer]

What is the basis for such calculations?

The projects going on in military area and civil area are telling.
Recently there are more localization efforts then there was before.
Ranging from chip making to screen technology and to thorium reactors and such, not to mention the very well known military projects. This is my personal estimation..

 

[Huelague]

Mr Temel Kotil:

“Our engines which we will use in prototypes until 2028, that we supply from GE are ready. On the other hand, our TR Motor company, which is our subsidiary, will have developed the domestic engine until 2028. TR Motor prepared the preliminary design. We are good at software. Our young engineers are achieving success with our well-equipped infrastructure. We are pretty good at fast production. We have gained significant knowledge with Hürjet which we developed in a short time with Hürkuş and his experience. We use new design techniques in our jet trainer Hürjet. With this experience, we are rapidly developing MMU. In addition, the 1.4 mach supersonic Hürjet is faster than the planes of rival companies. We have developed a 1.4 mach jet from our turboprop aircraft Hürkuş in 5 years. With these works, we will have done to the MMU with a speed of 1.8 mach"

So, TFX will has max speed of 1.8 mach not 2.1 mach.

 

[Huelague]

The projects going on in military area and civil area are telling.
Recently there are more localization efforts then there was before.
Ranging from chip making to screen technology and to thorium reactors and such, not to mention the very well known military projects. This is my personal estimation..

You dont understood my point.

 

[Zafer]

So, TFX will has max speed of 1.8 mach not 2.1 mach.

There was never a mention of mach 2.1 speed, I have never seen.

 

[Zafer]

You dont understood my point.

Will you explain further then?

 

[Huelague]

"Self reliance of 70%." How do we calculate this number?

 

[Rodeo]

2028 is an ambitious time frame for the domestic engine. Hope they can realize that.

It's not ambitious. It's delusional.

 

[Huelague]

There was never a mention of mach 2.1 speed, I have never seen.

Wiki for example.

 

[Zafer]

"Self reliance of 70%." How do we calculate this number?

I think there is not a definite method for calculation and it should have a degree of error of + or - 5 points. I do not take it by price of things but by the coverage of technology areas and their secondary effects.

 

[Manomed]

I started to dislike temel kotil a lot

He's talking nonsense

 

[Zafer]

Wiki for example.

MoD Akar mentioned 75% to 80% for 2023 for self reliance in defense sector. He later only mentioned 80%. From 75-80% in 2023 to 2028 things will speed up I guess and I believe it will hit 90% by end of 2028.

 

[Huelague]

Engineer friends in TUSAŞ are laughing at this

Because of what?

 

[Huelague]

MoD Akar mentioned 75% to 80% for 2023 for self reliance in defense sector. He later only mentioned 80%. From 75-80% in 2023 to 2028 things will speed up I guess and I believe it will hit 90% by end of 2028.

No.
How are the basis calculation for such numbers? For example, we produce a tank indigenous and domesticly. Except the engine, which costs 1mio $. The whole tank costs 10mio $. If we take the price as the basis for calculation, so we (tank) have a self reliance of 90%.

 

[TheInsider]

1,8 mach max speed @40k feet is the requirement of the airforce. The final maximum speed will be closely tied to the specs of the available engine(s).

 

[Yasar_TR]

"Self reliance of 70%." How do we calculate this number?

PWC (Price Waterhouse Coopers) in their reports always calculate it in terms of monetary values; Value of goods locally procured against value of goods imported to complete a product.
So if a plane cost you 100 million dollars to make. And the engines, paint, some raw materials and avionic sub systems purchased from abroad in the making of the airplane came to say 40million dollars then the plane is 60% locally produced.

 

[MADDOG]

I started to dislike temel kotil a lot

He's talking nonsense

That's to be expected when there is a party like the AKP leading the country (no offense). Out of everyone out there, Temel Kotil may is undoubtedly one of the best options. He is an extremely hardworking individual, there aren't many people like him out there.

 

[Khagan1923]

Doesn't matter what it is. This country needs to face reality. We are in no shape to develop and produce an engine on the same level of the F110 under 15 years. Instead of waisting more and more time and continuing to sabotage the Armed Forces how about some people get their head out of the sand and sign a deal with RR.

CEOs coming out and making ridiculous statements of developing an engine in 5 1/2 years in the 30000lbf+ class which will adhered to 5th gen characteristic is nothing but propaganda for the simple minded. Don't make me laugh.

People argue about exports without the fighter even having flown for the first time. How about we think what is best for the TurAF instead of possible exports. We have an aging F-16 Fleet meanwhile the countries around us are arming up to the teeth. And out "leaders" are talking like men in a cafe about building engines in 5 years.

RR is offering us the best option. Sign the damn deal have them develop an engine with Turkish Engineers for TF-X meanwhile a Turkish consortium can be tasked with developing engines and actually take its time to do so (10-15 years)