Air-Force Turkey asks U.S. to buy 40 F-16 jets to upgrade Air Force

[LegionnairE]

Gripen-C were powered with 18000lb turbofan and it has a max speed of 2Mach and a payload of almost 5,5ton so what?

It probably didn't do Mach 2 with 5.5 ton payload. That's probably the speed it reached while empty.

Anyway Gripen-C did not take-off from a 200m flight deck.

For that I'm guessing that Hürjet is going to need a very large wing area, which will make it slower and not very agile.
Not a fighter but more of a strike aircraft I presume.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

If they design it so it can take off from TCG Anadolu, it will be more of a strike aircraft than a true fighter.

It will have to be very light to be able to take off from a 200m runway.

Is there a written rule that all aircrafts is called as "strike aircraft" because of taking off from aircraft carrier? Of course, Hürjet with the appropriate equipment and hardware for air-to-air engagements will be a fighter aircraft.

 

[LegionnairE]

Is there a written rule that all aircrafts is called as "strike aircraft" because of taking off from aircraft carrier? Of course, Hürjet with the appropriate equipment and hardware for air-to-air engagements will be a fighter aircraft.

No I might be wrong. It's what I'm guessing.

It just feels to me that Hürjet will be a radically different aircraft from Gripen. The two could compliment each other.

 

[Khagan1923]

40 F-16 Block 70 + 80 Block 70 modernization packages + Özgür Modernization that should be on the same level, as a Stop Gap.

Towards the end of this decade production of Hürjet Fighter Jet, more powerful engine (F414?), AESA Radar, BVR Missiles (Gökhan), Cruise Missiles (SOM), Networking with Drones and other Aircraft/Ships, Pods.

Mid to end of next decade production of Block II/III TF-X with indigenous engines and fully implemented 5th Gen features.


IMO this should be the plan moving forward. The Block I TF-X Aircraft will be joining to although in limited numbers.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Khagan1923

Okay

Se ya'll in 2023 when Greece gets F35

Everybody have a good day.

 

[Khagan1923]

@Khagan1923

Okay

Se ya'll in 2023 when Greece gets F35

Everybody have a good day.

What is your argument here? I'm one of the hardest defenders of the F-35 here. If we can get it we have to get our planes as well as the F-35B for the Navy.

There is difference between talking about what ifs and talking about plans that need to be put into motion to not lag behind significantly.

Your talking about what ifs. I'm talking about real possibilities. 2023 the field can looks different. Even next year, but right now this is the reality we are in.

And the only concrete thing right now is the LoR for 40 F-16 Block 70 and 80 moderization packages as well as Hürjet/TF-X.

Don't tag me again on useless passive aggressive posts.

 

[Combat-Master]

The article mentioned that Hürjet will come in 4 variants, and since first flight is 2023, I believe they're going to make it because of the great significance it carries.

That is why I'm looking so forward to Hurjet. Not only will it be Turkey's first jet aircraft, but it is designed in such a way that it will will fit multiple roles.

I hope we will see TAI investing to develop a single-seat version of Hurjet.

A single-seat version of F-50;

 

[Saithan]

That is why I'm looking so forward to Hurjet. Not only will it be Turkey's first jet aircraft, but it is designed in such a way that it will will fit multiple roles.

I hope we will see TAI investing to develop a single-seat version of Hurjet.

A single-seat version of F-50;
View attachment 33539

A single seat with the electronic AI system to stabilize/control the jet would be quite a feat.

I don't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that F35 would be able to fly using AI and land in case Pilot loses consciousness which is what truly makes F35 awesome (among other things).

I think it was in a documentary about the Harrier I've shared in this forum some time ago.

 

[Anastasius]

A single seat with the electronic AI system to stabilize/control the jet would be quite a feat.

I don't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that F35 would be able to fly using AI and land in case Pilot loses consciousness which is what truly makes F35 awesome (among other things).

I think it was in a documentary about the Harrier I've shared in this forum some time ago.

First time I'm hearing about it. I do know that the F-35 will be equipped with onboard AI to control drones that can be used to provide combat support to the F-35 and regulate sensors but I am not aware that the F-35 will be able to fly using AI. I know the Air Force conducted virtual dogfights pitting a human pilot against an AI (in which the AI apparently outperformed the pilot) a couple of years ago but I don't think they've translated it into actual practical tech yet.

 

[Saithan]

First time I'm hearing about it. I do know that the F-35 will be equipped with onboard AI to control drones that can be used to provide combat support to the F-35 and regulate sensors but I am not aware that the F-35 will be able to fly using AI. I know the Air Force conducted virtual dogfights pitting a human pilot against an AI (in which the AI apparently outperformed the pilot) a couple of years ago but I don't think they've translated it into actual practical tech yet.

Found the video for people who may have missed it.

Explains how the engine behind VTOL comes from Ukraine. IP are taken on the design and not the engine as it's not LM that made it, as I understand.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

This is the proof of what we can do with Hürjet.

F50 proposed fighter aircraft with APAR radar (Hürjet will have AESA), BVR capability, stand-off ground attack, electronic warfare equipment and network-centric combat capability.

It is known that Hürjet will also have AI computers. In other words, the armed version of Hürjet is definitely not an aircraft to be underestimated. Hürjet will have the capabilities to make the enemy taste the effectiveness of the Goktug and Gökhan missiles with great pleasure.

 

[Fighter_35]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447450878336770053

Turan Oghuz got it right.

S400/F35 is a smokescreen its one of the easiest issues to solve but.

Turkey and the USA have various geopolitical issues which is causing a clash. You can even say some date back decades even before Erdogan took power.

So why they let our pilots see the aircraft, use the aircraft etc?? If they would not give us??
That is just excuses of akp and akpians for us not to be angry at the idiot decision to but s-400!!
Only excuse they were giving was s-400 , today they also say that,period!!

 

[Gary]

A single seat with the electronic AI system to stabilize/control the jet would be quite a feat.

I don't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that F35 would be able to fly using AI and land in case Pilot loses consciousness which is what truly makes F35 awesome (among other things).

I think it was in a documentary about the Harrier I've shared in this forum some time ago.

This is the proof of what we can do with Hürjet.

F50 proposed fighter aircraft with APAR radar (Hürjet will have AESA), BVR capability, stand-off ground attack, electronic warfare equipment and network-centric combat capability.

View attachment 33551

It is known that Hürjet will also have AI computers. In other words, the armed version of Hürjet is definitely not an aircraft to be underestimated. Hürjet will have the capabilities to make the enemy taste the effectiveness of the Goktug and Gökhan missiles with great pleasure.

what makes the F-35 awesome is it's network centric capability, it's unmatched advanced sensor fusion, unmatched data sharing and superb situational awareness adding to its advanced VLO characteristic.

for all of that the F-35 needs a LOT of power, currently the F-35 block 1-3 uses the single most powerful military low bypass turbofan in production, the Pratt and Whitney F135 engine with 190kN+ total thrust in addition to propel the jets, it also power all those fancy electronics LM installed in the aircraft.

and even then that's not enough, the Block 4 is slated to be powered by either an uprated F-135 or the XA100/101 three-stream adaptive cycle engine with 200+ kN thrust.

The Pentagon is exploring its options for a more efficient and powerful F-35 engine

Upgrades and new engine tech are under development, but will the military have the money?

www.defensenews.com

there's simply no way a 4th gen jet let alone derived from a trainer like the FA-50 could replaces the F-35.

 

[Ryder]

So why they let our pilots see the aircraft, use the aircraft etc?? If they would not give us??
That is just excuses of akp and akpians for us not to be angry at the idiot decision to but s-400!!
Only excuse they were giving was s-400 , today they also say that,period!!

Even without the S400 they would find some dumb way to take the F35 away.

Also if Turkey got its F35s for example 10 of them they could have slapped embargoes and cancel maintence. Alao if Turkey sent the F35s to the USA for maintence what happens if the USA confiscates the planes with some dumb reason?

S400/F35 issue can be solved but it wint due to Turkey and the USA having clashes in the geopolitical arena not to mention they are too stubborn to even go to the table to sort it out.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

what makes the F-35 awesome is it's network centric capability, it's unmatched advanced sensor fusion, unmatched data sharing and superb situational awareness adding to its advanced VLO characteristic.

for all of that the F-35 needs a LOT of power, currently the F-35 block 1-3 uses the single most powerful military low bypass turbofan in production, the Pratt and Whitney F135 engine with 190kN+ total thrust in addition to propel the jets, it also power all those fancy electronics LM installed in the aircraft.

and even then that's not enough, the Block 4 is slated to be powered by either an uprated F-135 or the XA100/101 three-stream adaptive cycle engine with 200+ kN thrust.

The Pentagon is exploring its options for a more efficient and powerful F-35 engine

Upgrades and new engine tech are under development, but will the military have the money?

www.defensenews.com

there's simply no way a 4th gen jet let alone derived from a trainer like the FA-50 could replaces the F-35.

It's not a question of looking for an aircraft to replace the F35. Turkey is already developing its own twin engine 5+ generation aircraft. Domestic engines will be commissioned in the mass production phase in 2030's and the power plan for these engines is 2x35000lb for each TfX. In other words, we are talking about a fighter aircraft capable of producing high power to easily feed the most advanced electronic attack systems and radars. Besides, TfX's autonomous capabilities, decision taking features, pilot-aircraft communication and very advanced sensors like BURFIS and EOTS will be a real power multiplier. The issue is about Turkey developing its own solution as an intermediary solution until TfX comes and this transition to take place in a healthy way without any shortcoming. In this regard, Hürjet is a platform that can successfully fulfill the tasks assigned to it.

 

[TheInsider]

Israelis are so stupid... maintaining two types of 4th generation fighters like that. Idiots amirite?

Also who banned me? It seems my superiority has led to some controversy.

Well we don't get 5 billion free money from the US yearly.

One thing everyone misses here is MIUS will come fast. By 2025 we will have a supersonic unmanned aircraft that is very stealth, has an aesa radar, can launch Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Akdoğan, Gökhan A-A missiles, and will come with smart squadron capability. And MIUS will be really cheap compared to 4th or 5th gen manned fighters. 4th gen fighters will instantly be obsolete. 5th gen fighters will be too low in numbers to cope with MIUS squadrons. There is nothing stopping us to get 240 MIUS for the price of 40 F-16 block 70. Even subsonic MIUS will be a menace against 4th gen fighters. It can get as close to 20-30-40km of a 4th gen fighter without revealing itself. When you fire an A-A missile at that range it will be an instant bullseye.

 

[Elaser]

Well we don't get 5 billion free money from the US yearly.

One thing everyone misses here is MIUS will come fast. By 2025 we will have a supersonic unmanned aircraft that is very stealth, has an aesa radar, can launch Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Akdoğan, Gökhan A-A missiles, and will come with smart squadron capability. And MIUS will be really cheap compared to 4th or 5th gen manned fighters. 4th gen fighters will instantly be obsolete. 5th gen fighters will be too low in numbers to cope with MIUS squadrons. There is nothing stopping us to get 240 MIUS for the price of 40 F-16 block 70. Even subsonic MIUS will be a menace against 4th gen fighters. It can get as close to 20-30-40km of a 4th gen fighter without revealing itself. When you fire an A-A missile at that range it will be an instant bullseye.

This is what I'm trying to say but he doesn't want to know. He wants pkk loving swedish fighters with less capability than f-16 block 70...

With MIUS single seat combat capable Hurjet is not even needed...

 

[Fighter_35]

Even without the S400 they would find some dumb way to take the F35 away.

Also if Turkey got its F35s for example 10 of them they could have slapped embargoes and cancel maintence. Alao if Turkey sent the F35s to the USA for maintence what happens if the USA confiscates the planes with some dumb reason?

S400/F35 issue can be solved but it wint due to Turkey and the USA having clashes in the geopolitical arena not to mention they are too stubborn to even go to the table to sort it out.

We are not talking about possibilities here!!
We lost lucrative contracts for our companies and we get embargo which will slow many of our projects , additionally to f-35!! Just these things are enough to abondon shit Russian system even if we would not receive f-35s!!
And only excuse we get still now is s-400!!

 

[LegionnairE]

Well we don't get 5 billion free money from the US yearly.

Both countries aim to field some 400-500 aircraft. Where the money comes from is irrelevant.

If we can maintain a seperate logistical line for just 40 F4 Terminators, then we can afford to maintain some 100 Gripens or Typhoons. Didn't read the rest of your post.

This is what I'm trying to say but he doesn't want to know. He wants pkk loving swedish fighters with less capability than f-16 block 70...

You want Block 70 from pkk supporting USA, and S400 from pkk supporting Russia.

Let's stop with this political nonsense. If we have needs then we have needs. Which is why you live in sweden isn't it? Hypocrite

 

[Turan]

Sweden is worse than America in terms of selling weapons to Turkey because of the PKK.
Even more likely to get f16 from America than to get gripen from sweden.

Plus when you buy a Gripen, you have to build a new infrastructure for it, so the cost per plane you will buy will probably be more expensive than buying a new F16 block 70. And the Gripen E doesn't promise much more than f16 block 70.