TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[sh. Abdj]

What do you mean,how many we

Because sophisticated UAV are not cheap either. The cost of a single Anka is between 25 to 30 millions dollars. Now multiply 30 millions with 300 … In reality the Army gets those drones at a reduced price, but still. A few dozens of each is actually enough. And Turkey and Greece will never go to war, the US will not allow it.

The US will not Allow it now but in the future they can push it even. And then They will support the side they want. And I don't know the price but there is no price high for food,Shelter, and Self defence, and Usually increase in production means decrease in price. Anyway I am new in the forum I was watching Ukraine vs. Russia War news and was dragged here, and I can see some interesting topics. Is this Turkish Forum or world wide?

 

[Zafer]

The question is just to understand why Turkey is Politicaly SuperPower while in Production rate is acting like a regional power. Turkey is having problem with Greece which could Turn to War with EU and maybe even US support, Turkey is few Kilometers from Russia, and Turkey brothers in Kazakhstan are on the border with China,... And after all that people in this forum are saying 300 kizilelma and 300 Anka is so much while the reality it is so small, The bigger problem TAI is not ramping up production of any product even Anka 1, or Aksungur.

Existing drone models are still not very powerful and development is still ongoing. Once Kızılelma and Anka-3 fly with a domestic engine and they become formidable players we can have them in great numbers. Other drones' numbers can be increased over time but we want to have newer models as they become available rather than having a big stock of older ones. It is a more profitable option to export them now rather than keeping them for ourselves.

 

[No Name]

Because sophisticated UAV are not cheap either. The cost of a single Anka is between 25 to 30 millions dollars. Now multiply 30 millions with 300 … In reality the Army gets those drones at a reduced price, but still. A few dozens of each is actually enough. And Turkey and Greece will never go to war, the US will not allow it.

A single Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie only costs $7,750,000 dollars in other words if the Kizilelma or Anka 3 costs more then that is a failure.

 

[sh. Abdj]

Existing drone models are still not very powerful and development is still ongoing. Once Kızılelma and Anka-3 fly with a domestic engine and they become formidable players we can have them in great numbers. Other drones' numbers can be increased over time but we want to have newer models as they become available rather than having a big stock of older ones. It is a more profitable option to export them now rather than keeping them for ourselves.

Ok. But just imagine Ukraine having something like 3,000 TB2 and 1,200 Anka 1 and 600 Aksungur playing different roles. will any power be able even to mass troops on border to Attack it and if they Attack what will survive from this Army? Numbers are important and how much space you can be patrolling and how many you can afford to lose in first months of War is very important.

 

[Ryder]

The US will not Allow it now but in the future they can push it even. And then They will support the side they want. And I don't know the price but there is no price high for food,Shelter, and Self defence, and Usually increase in production means decrease in price. Anyway I am new in the forum I was watching Ukraine vs. Russia War news and was dragged here, and I can see some interesting topics. Is this Turkish Forum or world wide?

Its a Worldwide forum

 

[Agha Sher]

A single Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie only costs $7,750,000 dollars in other words if the Kizilelma or Anka 3 costs more then that is a failure.

What? You are comparing XQ-58 with KE and Anka 3?

 

[No Name]

What? You are comparing XQ-58 with KE and Anka 3?

It will be quantity rather than quality that will win wars in the Future, especially when autonomous AI becomes more developed.

 

[Heartbang]

A single Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie only costs $7,750,000 dollars in other words if the Kizilelma or Anka 3 costs more then that is a failure.

Not equals. Valkyrie remains puny in comparison to Kızılelma

 

[Zafer]

Ok. But just imagine Ukraine having something like 3,000 TB2 and 1,200 Anka 1 and 600 Aksungur playing different roles. will any power be able even to mass troops on border to Attack it and if they Attack what will survive from this Army? Numbers are important and how much space you can be patrolling and how many you can afford to lose in first months of War is very important.

Türkiye is a drone maker country and we can make drones when we want to have them so there is no point in stocking them up. We only need to keep a healthy doze of them for emergencies.

 

[Ecderha]

Türkiye is a drone maker country and we can make drones when we want to have them so there is no point in stocking them up. We only need to keep a healthy doze of them for emergencies.

Little correction if I may ->
Replace "drone" with any Turkiye own product.
"Türkiye is a drone maker country and we can make drones when we want to have them"


That is "The Thing" which I am trying to underline so many times here to some naive people (no offense).
The thing = own product, force you enemy to keep thinking how can they defeat Turkiye product which they Do not understand, do not know, Do not have intel how this product is reconfigured for present mission.

Turkiye must stop think to buy products from you psudo allies which are keep siding with Turkiye enemies all time.
Psudo allies products which are atleast 3 time more expensive. Products which are not controled by Turkiye but from the producer = which is keen to side this Turkiye enemy.
Psudo allies products which are export version (mean with low features, means with more bugs). Versions which Turkiye must put more money to external owners to keep the same product update to date. Where Turkiye have to do begging and hope for that psudo allies are gonna pleased. Turkiye people must understand that own future mean that Turkiye people MUST Study, Work fucking hard and Do Own product in order to be Free and independent for all matters which are related to OWN nation. Stop been naive and believe to the Lies on psudo allies -> they Keep showing to Turks that they have Own plan which is always different and always destructive for Turkiye

 

[sh. Abdj]

Türkiye is a drone maker country and we can make drones when we want to have them so there is no point in stocking them up. We only need to keep a healthy doze of them for emergencies.

Having enough ready is better than waiting for wartime. And increasing production of small product like phone charger is hard thing that takes time to implement how about scaling drone production with hundreds of subsystems. There is a reason why countries used to have thousands of tanks and Turkey have more than 10,000 Armored Vehicle although Turkey can produce big amount of them in war and even many have Truck engine and modern heavy equipment subsystems wich is easier to obtain in time of conflict. Having 300 TB 2 will not end a war with a super power but having 3,000 can and spending 10 or 15 billion on having such stock and another 10 billion to build more multipurpose Airports and tens of new small satellites is better than spending 500 billion as Ukraine on rebuilding and also will help in other non military aspects. Ukraine war should be a lesson. War have changed and Russia, China, and US are learning the lessons and preparing. And it is clear that Turkey learned this lesson before but if the country didn't take advantage of know how they had before to ramp production others will reach this stage later and do it. China is already in the big mass production, Russia is Trying and soon will reach it, and US have already very big number of flying objects that can attack. Even regional powers like Iran have thousands of drones , Saudis, Emaraties, Egyptian all will have hundreds of them in few years. Although many of this countries are not threatening Turkeya but having numerical Edge is also important even on Allies and friends.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Well, I am not so sure about your theory that Turkey won't go to the war against Greece or whatever. I realised a long ago the nature of the things around me. History, mentality, instincts etc . Also if I may add in the struggle for my country which lasts since early 80s and unfortunately it involves having " complex" experiences , I for a second do not doubt in the incoming conflicts. Moreover I don't doubt the conflicts on the European soil. Simply that's how certain realities and numbers are strucked . The massive psychosis is prelevant .

The US will not allow two NATO ‘’allie’s’’ to fight each other. Otherwise this would mean the end of the organization, and this is not something the US wants right now. Anyway not the topic.

 

[TR_123456]

The question is just to understand why Turkey is Politicaly SuperPower while in Production rate is acting like a regional power. Turkey is having problem with Greece which could Turn to War with EU and maybe even US support, Turkey is few Kilometers from Russia, and Turkey brothers in Kazakhstan are on the border with China,... And after all that people in this forum are saying 300 kizilelma and 300 Anka is so much while the reality it is so small, The bigger problem TAI is not ramping up production of any product even Anka 1, or Aksungur.

300 KIZILELMA and 300 Anka means 600 ''pilots'',plus maintenance crew,spareparts,engines,fuel etc.
Do you see the costs of operating 600 of them?

 

[Afif]

Having enough ready is better than waiting for wartime. And increasing production of small product like phone charger is hard thing that takes time to implement how about scaling drone production with hundreds of subsystems. There is a reason why countries used to have thousands of tanks and Turkey have more than 10,000 Armored Vehicle although Turkey can produce big amount of them in war and even many have Truck engine and modern heavy equipment subsystems wich is easier to obtain in time of conflict. Having 300 TB 2 will not end a war with a super power but having 3,000 can and spending 10 or 15 billion on having such stock and another 10 billion to build more multipurpose Airports and tens of new small satellites is better than spending 500 billion as Ukraine on rebuilding and also will help in other non military aspects. Ukraine war should be a lesson. War have changed and Russia, China, and US are learning the lessons and preparing. And it is clear that Turkey learned this lesson before but if the country didn't take advantage of know how they had before to ramp production others will reach this stage later and do it. China is already in the big mass production, Russia is Trying and soon will reach it, and US have already very big number of flying objects that can attack. Even regional powers like Iran have thousands of drones , Saudis, Emaraties, Egyptian all will have hundreds of them in few years. Although many of this countries are not threatening Turkeya but having numerical Edge is also important even on Allies and friends.

I abandoned making such projections long time ago.
Because I learned, in reality that is not how it works.

Turkish Armed Forces has senior and experience specialist and officers whose job to conduct comprehensive studies and pin point analysis to asses short term and long term threat levels From every angle there is.
In the end That is how high command set the requirement for procurement of X numbers of certain Areal/naval/land assets. (And this is pretty much how all modern armed forces operate)

Unless you have those specific analysis papers in your hand, those numbers you mentioned (hundreds of these, thousand of that) really does not mean much.

 

[Ecderha]

300 KIZILELMA and 300 Anka means 600 ''pilots'',plus maintenance crew,spareparts,engines,fuel etc.
Do you see the costs of operating 600 of them?

Logically you right, but we need to be real.
I am saying that -> Simply in above math is wrong!
Why?
We talking about Simple rule in military plan. It is that you calculate that you gonna lose some "Tech" but it is not mean that you will lose also trained person.
So above 300+300 it is not equal to 600 pilots. You build more, knowing that you can have more platforms as backup.When you loss one of the drones then the same trained personal just take next platform from depot and start controlling it.

 

[TR_123456]

Logically you right, but we need to be real.
I am saying that -> Simply in above math is wrong!
Why?
We talking about Simple rule in military plan. It is that you calculate that you gonna lose some "Tech" but it is not mean that you will lose also trained person.
So above 300+300 it is not equal to 600 pilots. You build more, knowing that you can have more platforms as backup.When you loss one of the drones then the same trained personal just take next platform from depot and start controlling it.

Thats not what he meant,he meant 300 of each active .

 

[sh. Abdj]

300 KIZILELMA and 300 Anka means 600 ''pilots'',plus maintenance crew,spareparts,engines,fuel etc.
Do you see the costs of operating 600 of them?

Yes it will cost and any systems and vehicles ... will cost also. But Air Superiority is not some thing to mess with. And as long as you have good local product especially if it reach 100% like promised this numbers are small. Just watch for US and China how much they intend to have, even Russia will follow when they have Capacity. The problem for Turkey is deciding weather it want to be super power or no. Turkey now is a middle power and it will be ahead of all such powers in airforce like UK, France, Germany, ... In about 15 years. And 600 such UCAV are rate of 3 to 1 manned or 2 to 1 ... And this is not much and I think this is the Goal of the current Turkey leadership anyway. But I wish for Turkey to be among the Super powers not just a big middle power.

 

[TR_123456]

Yes it will cost and any systems and vehicles ... will cost also. But Air Superiority is not some thing to mess with. And as long as you have good local product especially if it reach 100% like promised this numbers are small. Just watch for US and China how much they intend to have, even Russia will follow when they have Capacity. The problem for Turkey is deciding weather it want to be super power or no. Turkey now is a middle power and it will be ahead of all such powers in airforce like UK, France, Germany, ... In about 15 years. And 600 such UCAV are rate of 3 to 1 manned or 2 to 1 ... And this is not much and I think this is the Goal of the current Turkey leadership anyway. But I wish for Turkey to be among the Super powers not just a big middle power.

You must think of the doctrine applied here.
The KIZILELMA and Anka's are not alone,they are just a part of our defence doctrine.
TFX,F-16,Anka III,KIZILELMA,TB2,Boeing 737 AEW&C ,Hisar SIPER Air Defence Systems,Tf-2000 etc all together defend Turkish territory.
You only need what is necesarry to defend your territory,to much is a just a burden.

 

[dBSPL]

300 KIZILELMA and 300 Anka means 600 ''pilots'',plus maintenance crew,spareparts,engines,fuel etc.
Do you see the costs of operating 600 of them?

I am of the opinion that Tactical & Joint Communication issues are the most important challenge to ensure the operational effectiveness of unmanned fighter jets as more agile platforms and in multiple numbers on battlefield.

 

[sh. Abdj]

I abandoned making such projections long time ago.
Because I learned, in reality that is not how it works.

Turkish Armed Forces has senior and experience specialist and officers whose job to conduct comprehensive studies and pin point analysis to asses short term and long term threat levels From every angle there is.
In the end That is how high command set the requirement for procurement of X numbers of certain Areal/naval/land assets. (And this is pretty much how all modern armed forces operate)

Unless you have those specific analysis papers in your hand, those numbers you mentioned (hundreds of these, thousand of that) really does not mean much.

It is the same thing all around the world people will assume but military leadership will follow the political leadership to choose Allies and enemies then threats. For example Bangladesh Army strategy shows they are ready to deal with internal threat or country like Myanmar attacking them but the country didn't prepare for a scinario of getting into war with india Although this Also could happen. The only countries preparing for any scinario are US, China, Russia, india, and strangely North Korea. All have their own means and capabilities but they are trying.