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I have no doubt about Tusas making the plane to the specs given without a problem. Especially with the twin F110 engines as a 4++ generation fighter. But when it comes to the 35000lbf class engines that TR Motor was designing, it seemingly has a somewhat larger diameter than the aircraft can accommodate. Prof Aksit sounded like having a bit of sour grapes since they were not involved in this project. But he did say that the producing the plane before the engine being not correct was his opinion.
If you have engines like US has, readily available under your hand, then it is no big deal if you produce the plane before the engine. But if you are like us with difficulty in obtaining the right sized engine, then it is imperative to guarantee supply of the correct engine first.
Also if your prospective engine dimensions are not known and you produce the plane first, you could be jeopardising the program. This is going to be a stealth plane. If the engine diameter is bigger than what you have planned for, then you may have to re design the whole fuselage and airframe.
You could fit a F414 in to a Gripen in place of a F404. But you could have problems with say an EJ-200. Although not impossible.
If memory serves, when Gripen engine was changed in the new E and F block planes to F414, from f404; the plane’s airframe was redesigned by Akaer Group of Brazil to get the best out of the new engine, in spite of the almost identical dimensions of both engines.
Good question!Does tf 6000 really exist? Or is it just a speculation? Apart from this forum, I have not read anything about it. When we will be able to see it you think friends?
Isnt that a no-brainer considering that they made a partnership with Rolls Royce for the TFX engine? Or will the TFX engine be a turbojet variant?KaleArge will develop a turbofan engine!
General Manager Cüneyt Kenger:
"As Kale Arge, while we care about focusing on properly carrying out 4 different turbojet projects at the same time, developing a turbofan engine is both on our roadmap and in our hearts."
Tfx engine has to be a turbofan. Not turbojet. It should ideally be a variable by-pass turbofan. But that will take some time yet. May be in much later blocks.Isnt that a no-brainer considering that they made a partnership with Rolls Royce for the TFX engine? Or will the TFX engine be a turbojet variant?
I have always thought a variable by-pass turbofan was relatively easier to attain, since it is a mechanical process to divide the air current, and the harder part to be the high-tech material (production and application) in use (esp. on fifth gen. engines). I would very much like to hear (at your convenience, of course) the difficulties in such an apllication…Tfx engine has to be a turbofan. Not turbojet. It should ideally be a variable by-pass turbofan. But that will take some time yet. May be in much later blocks.
Turbojets are inefficient at lower altitudes. But they perform more efficiently at very high altitudes. For planes like Concorde and SR71, turbojet engines are the natural choice. But for fighter planes it has to be turbofans.
They seem to have already done preliminary studies to find out if he can really make it. But starting an official development work is arguably too big a deal to go for without external budget allocation.I hope that Aksit start the MMU engine project without be a part, if he manages a engine like that he still could sell it to third countries. Or it can work as backup engine, like Gurkan Okumus started G-40 missile project with no green light of SSB.
Probably currently the roadmap of the domestic turbofan engine project is being created by SSB. During these weeks the SSB delegation would visit RR and eventually partnership structure will be established between Turkish companies and RR.
Prior to RR's withdrawal from the tender, Kale-RR JV group was a competitor of TEI and TEI had previously offered to develop an engine from scratch and had determined average development period including certification to be 14 years. Now the engine project is being reconsidered and SSB doesn't want a risky roadmap. Rather than developing an engine from scratch and risking not being equivalent to the F110 in diameter, they are taking steps to co-develop a powerful turbofan core that can provide power in the 35000-40000lb range with a technological partner like RR. Therefore, the focus is on solving some of the issues that RR had question marks about. To satisfy the RR, as the first step, the shares of Trmotor, which undertook the design of the domestic engine project, were purchased by TAI and the design and development process of the domestic engine will likely be carried out in partnership with RR-Trmotor and Kale now. It is possible that SSB is planning to involve TEI in the mass production phase as well. That's why TEI wants to emphasize that they can design and develop this engine without the need for a foreign partner and Mr Akşit works that TEI can get more shares in this strategic project. This is my current reading about this subject.
Just a couple months ago I asked a TEI personell about PD170, he said tests are still going and current production Anka and Aksungur's still using foreign engine (for whose still thinks PD170 is in service!) . He also said PD170 with localised engine block is just assembled.
Befor anything else I guess KALE may/should go for a turbofan engine for Gezgin. Not may be in the early Gezgin since there is already an ongoing turbojet project for Gezgin but I am almost certain that eventually Gezgin will have a turbofan engine, since as you stated very correctly ''Turbojets are inefficient at lower altitudes'' and gezgin will be a terrain hugging long range cruise missile. It is safe to assume that KALE will come up with a cheap simple turbofan engine for Gezgin at some point. Ok turbofan engine for ''LONG RANGE'' cruise missile is may be not the norm but the most efficent and logical solution.Tfx engine has to be a turbofan. Not turbojet. It should ideally be a variable by-pass turbofan. But that will take some time yet. May be in much later blocks.
Turbojets are inefficient at lower altitudes. But they perform more efficiently at very high altitudes. For planes like Concorde and SR71, turbojet engines are the natural choice. But for fighter planes it has to be turbofans.
If you are aiming for a 2500km range cruise missile, a turbofan engine is the logical choice. But if your missile is going to travel around 800-1200km, then a turbojet will also suffice. These engines are expendable engines. So they need to be cheap. Turbojets are a lot cheaper than turbofans. French Scalp naval cruise missile travels well over 1000km with a turbojet engine.Befor anything else I guess KALE may/should go for a turbofan engine for Gezgin. Not may be in the early Gezgin since there is already an ongoing turbojet project for Gezgin but I am almost certain that eventually Gezgin will have a turbofan engine, since as you stated very correctly ''Turbojets are inefficient at lower altitudes'' and gezgin will be a terrain hugging long range cruise missile. It is safe to assume that KALE will come up with a cheap simple turbofan engine for Gezgin at some point. Ok turbofan engine for ''LONG RANGE'' cruise missile is may be not the norm but the most efficent and logical solution.
An engine operates most efficiently when the exit velocity closely matches the speed of the airframe. Hence all current engines are optimised and only operate at moderate efficiency.I have always thought a variable by-pass turbofan was relatively easier to attain, since it is a mechanical process to divide the air current, and the harder part to be the high-tech material (production and application) in use (esp. on fifth gen. engines). I would very much like to hear (at your convenience, of course) the difficulties in such an apllication…